[Shibbyloutte]

Joli boulot j'espère sincèrement que pour une fois on sera écouter

Si au moins sa peu leur faire prendre conscience du malaise :/

En tout cas respect, c'est propre précis concis du travail de pro

En esperant réellement voir mon Sw servir à quelques choses

* Prie pour que l'idée du fufu statique passe (et qu'on donne le buisson au squigg hunter )*

Par contre sa aurait été pas mal de rajouter une animation genre s'enveloppe dans sa cape elfique pour fufuter

[Valril]

faite péter le bouton waaagh sur le forum !

[MrYay]

Yep on croise les doigts. Il me reste plus qu'a traduire ca en anglais et faire en sorte que les autres pays puissent y mettre la main a la pate. En esperant que qq1 puisse également le poster sur les forums US officiel (mais je m'attends a des whine car le post ne viendra pas de chez eux...)

Citation :

Par contre sa aurait été pas mal de rajouter une animation genre s'enveloppe dans sa cape elfique pour fufuter

J'ai failli le rajouté. Ensuite je me suis dit qu'il y a un soucis: quand le SW n'a pas de cape (genre T1) il fait comment ? Par contre j'ai rajouté qu'il fallait une animation propre a celui-ci pour que ca ne soit pas perdu.

Peace

[Shibbyloutte]

je filerai bien un cuop de main a la trad mais je décolle pour le japon et je reviens dans 15j

J'espere lire de bonnes nouvelles pr le SW à mon retour

[MrYay]

rhooo, le veinard. J'irai au Japon un peu plus tard dans l'année .

Et bien on verra si Mythic a amélioré son processus de communication avec la communauté europeene. Parce que jusque la, ils n'ont pas brillé (et pour entendre apres le dev-chat que le SW peut rester dans son ombre... just bleh).

Peace

[Valril]

Si tu veux un coup de main coté trad ...

[Sulfure]

Merci pour ton travail de synthèse, j'ai appuyé et Waaaghé ton sujet sur le forum officiel.
Ceci dit je ne pense pas que ça change quoi que ce soit, la position de Mythic étant "on a regarder le SW et conclue qu'il n'y avait rien a faire" ><

[Valril]

Honnêtement je pense que ça servira à rien coté Mythic, simplement à prouver que des joueurs peuvent aussi proposer du constructif, pas abused si on sait trier dans les propositions en fonction des choix précédent.

Bref qu'il y a aussi des personnes censés qui jouent

[Raegan]

Joli boulot

Par contre: - le ward sur le set de ruine tuerait définitivement l'instance bastion ( qui depuis les 3sacs rve est totalement désertée )
- si l'on ajoute 100% parade sur concealment, faudrait revoir sa durée ( 5 sec comme pour Untouchable du slayer )
- ( Je mettrais un kudos dès que j'aurais compris comment ca marche ) c'est bon

[MrYay]

Merci pour ta proposition Val, je ne manquerai pas de te soliciter si je manque de temps pour tout boucler.

Pour le thread, yes, il y a peu de chance qu'on est un retour officiel, mais on est en 2009 et la collaboration entre une entreprise et ses clients c'est primordial, surtout depuis qu'internet s'est banalisé. Maintenant, je veux pouvoir dire qu'on a fait ce qu'on a pu pour sauver notre classe avant que certains d'entre nous décident de l'abandonner (a juste raison) ou pire de couper leur abo.

[edit] Raegan, j'en prends note pour concealment. Pour le bastion, eh, ca marchera toujours pour ceux qui sont pour le pur r... enfin je voulais dire pve/instance .

Peace

[Sulfure]

Bastion, je m'en passe bien
L'alternative au ward sur le set ruine serait de revoir le système de drop des set RvR et Mythic en a déjà parler.
J'ai en mémoire une histoire de gain au lock de zone qui me semble assez pourri aussi, mais bon on vera bien et ça n'est pas spécifique au SW.

Je pense que pas mal de passionnés restent sur la classe quoi qu'il en coute
C'est peut être ce qui retient Mythic pour agir.

Pour ma part ces derniers temps je m'amuse bien sur le Choppa, ça deal à mort, ça reste du MDPS donc beaucoup moins évident de survivre mais je ne me sent pas perdu :
Malgré que la classe soit forte la comparaison des arbres avec le tueur me fait juste rire.

[Eltharin \o/]

Citation :

Malgré que la classe soit forte la comparaison des arbres avec le tueur me fait juste rire.

ça équilibre avec les arbres de merde du LB

[Sulfure]

Citation :

Publié par Oo Eltharin oO

ça équilibre avec les arbres de merde du LB

C'est complètement absurde de la part de Mythic mais je me suis fait la même remarque
Enfin désolé pour le HS.

[Valril]

Up, je suis en cours de traduction, cependant mon anglais n'étant pas forcement au top j'aurais besoin de relecteur

[Raegan]

Je suis volontaire

[Valril]

Bon bah dès que j'ai fini (en fin de semaine ou la semaine prochaine), je t'envoie ça en MP.

Merci Raegan

[MrYay]

Merci a vous deux les gars,

Au fait je me suis rendu compte d'un truc ces derniers temps.
J'ai respect skirmish, et decidé de rester tel jusqu'a la 1.2.1 (first love inside). Eh be, je m'apercois que le stuff de l'adversaire (a forciori le miens) y joue quand meme pas mal. Sur des joueurs destru qui sont fraichement 40, SFA critic a +1000 quand meme. Par contre, on tombe vite sur du 300-400 sur des personnes ayant du minimum sentinel. Bon, le probleme que j'ai est que je ne fait pas de PvE et que je suis poisseux comme pas possible (niveau loot, je me balade encore avec des pieces annihilateur/invaders...), eh eh. Enfin, ca ne change rien au probleme.


Peace

[Raegan]

Citation :

Publié par MrYay

...je me balade encore avec des pieces annihilateur/invaders...

[Valril]

Moi je sens un poil la diff en scout en stuff Senti majoritaire et Anni;

Le Dark Promise me tends les bras

[Valril]

Hi Ladies & Gentlemen from Mythic or GOA


This Post and Us
This post results from the reflexion of several French Shadow Warriors (SW) about their game-play, role and bugsled by Mr Yay. This reflexion has been previously realized on a French Community Forum (Jeux online) and thereby past one the French Official SW board .
We just wanted to give some hint about giving solid foundation to this class which is not love as much as it should although we don't want an overpowered SW.
We gathered opinions and ideas from different players known as “expert“ about the career, as old “Warhammer : battle” players or “Warhammer : RPG” players also from other Order class players or Destruction players.

Our reflexion was built on 3 steps

1. Try to explain clearly what the problems of the SW are in term of Game play, role and bugs
2. Focus on misbuilding of the class, obvious for all players/ennemies but apparently not for Mythic (Glass Arrow, Barrage, StanceLess, Flight time of arrows, Range of skirmish abilities and DoTs, … etc)
3. Make realistic and multiple propositions that can help you or lead you, GameDesigners

Motivations (Lore, Gameplay, Ideas, General purposes and Comparisons)


The general feeling is that Mythic has a problem with the SW class. It seems that SW are difficult to balance and , a fortiori, that more “popular” classes are preferred in terms of effort.

• Players expect that a bowmen is powerful with a bow, and not only with a sword (Mythic presents SW as a RDPS class)
• The seducing theoretical idea of a RDPS also efficient in close combat (with a sword) has the major flaw that the preferred stance , RDPS (Scout/Skirm) or MDPS(Assault/Skirm) was not compatible with the other.
• The Scout is only interesting with “Unshakable Focus” (Moral 2), Vengeance of Nagaryth (VoN 2 min CD) and/or Steady Aim
• The Lore and background of the Warhammer Battle or RPG doesn't match the W.A.R Shadow Warrior
• SW are usually strategical expert, so we expect that SW could used the battleground
• The SW players don't want to deal AE damages as much of a BW or an Engineer. thus, why does SW deal a lot less than all the other RDPS ? We are certainly not a swiss knife and despite of some common CCs ( with thesame immunity with other class (and very classical)) his survivability on melee depend only from is build and never counterbalance a loss of global efficiency (Moreover other RDPS can “shoot” or “cast” in close fight)? In this way, the base SW DPS has to be raised a little. Finally the right way will be to make SW the best RDPS on one target with many CC to reflect is ability to used the battleground
• The general thought coming from other player is that SW are not useless, but not a “must have” in a group or in larger fight : Other classes do the same things and often better. Moreover, SW does not have a lot of CC whereas we could expect more.
• VoN could not be well fitted to the archetype, but is very limited by the GCD which is triggered and the lag.
• Scout build's gameplay is drastically decreased by a combination of : slow cast + long flight time + lag. This leads to a very static gameplay where the main choice is “survive or deal” unlike BW or Engineer
• SW is very fun and interesting to play because of the stance system. But it restricts a lot the possiblity. A SW starts with flaws and the stance has to counterbalance this fact. Assault stance is barely perfect (debuff armor problem only) and well build, but the two others could be improved and balanced a lot !
• Scout Stance has to be efficient at 100 ft and more, including DoTs which are very important for our gameplay. But there are limited to 72 ft so all of our game play is limited to 72 ft
• The end of the Skirmish Path is dashed off : “Charge Forth” and “Barrage” are useless at this moment, and “Lileath Arrows” is broken due to Y axis ( Eye shot has been corrected recently)
• Skills placed on the fifth position of each path are very important because they can be used in all stance. They have to motivate a SW to place points in 2 or 3 paths. Unfortunately only Shadow sting is really usable in all stance. Glass arrow doesn' t deal enough in all stance and is to slow to cast to be used in assault or skirmish stance. Swift Strike is only interesting in assault stance.
• Skirmish specialist is constraint because of the proximity of the enemy exposing him to Chaos Rift, Terrible Embrace and all MDPS and so on. But without counterbalance !!! we are far from the 500 k and 1 000 k of damage deal done during a scenario by a BW or en Engineer focus on AE damage and we die usually more often
• Tactics such as “Shooting wit da wind/throwin arm” are mainly to keep a balance around RDPS. Between 65 ft and 95 there's a gap, more since 1.2 and resists cap. 95 ft is safer and a lot more usable than 65 . Moreover this unbalanced game, these
• Among the modifications or replacements of unused (and unusable) skills we could imagine some disorienting shot, some increasing target's CD, buff dispell or interrupting shot in order to not be limited by immunity but also to create more strategy and originality
• The last but not the least : SW is the only class which is unanimously considered useless or with a poor utility by destruction and order players (according to the other classes).

The following is a synthesis which has been realized with a main concerning of balance and mechanism that could enhance the interest of this class.
Mythic Dev' could consider(ed) it as a base of work and reflexion.
We have to precise that sometimes propositions are linked but sometimes totally exclusives in order to preserve a balance. Moreover the "Mirror Classes" is not alway take into account
Definitively we don't want an Overpowered SW.

General:

• No GCD triggered for “Vengeance of Nagarythe” activation
• No GCD triggered for Stance Dancing, but keep the 5 sec CD seems to be important
• Set of tactics linked to stance. For instance : Steady Aim/Smoldering Arrow/Enchanted Arrow/Centuries of Training in “Scout” and "Skirmish" could be Steady Aim/Split Arrow/Keen Arrowhead/Replenish Strike”.
• Shadow Warrior mustn't be stanceless.
• Increased base characteristics in order to be competitive with BW and Engi
• Add a disorienting arrow shot
• Add a disarming arrow shot
• Stance system relies one double specialty for several Arrows. Expand the system. For instance :
  • Flame Arrow => Scout + Assault
  • Throat shoot => Scout + Skirmish
  • Disarm => Assault + Scout
  • Counter Strike => Assault + Skirmish
  • Lileath ( => Skirmish + Scout
  • Eye shot => Skirmish + Assault

Core Abilities

• Stealth
  • SW become sneaky after XXX sec of inactivity and immobility
  • Stealth ends after actions or movement
  • During stealth , SW gain XXX init bonus point to raise is detection against witch elves and a crit bonus for his first shot (if he (don't) has not moved before). After this shot, bonus and stealth are lost.
• Hunter's Fervor
  • Choice 1 : give instantly +XX AP to group members. During 10 sec, each ability used by SW and Team Mates has a cost reduction of 5 PA and effects that slowed attacks of the group are reduce by 50%. CD 45 sec. Stack with other effect (potion or abilities) for PA regeneration
  • Choice 2 : give + XX PA/tick and also during casting. Stack with other regeneration effect.
  • Choice 3 : give + 10% of speed movement to the group for 10 sec.

• Whrilgin Pin : become a Trap > the first ennemy approaching within 10 ft of the trap will destroy it but it roots all ennemy within 30 ft. Lasts 10 sec, granting immunity as usual. Each damage gives 50% to be released. The Trap is active for 1 minute . CD 10 sec
• The root must take Ballistic as main characteristic ( as for engies ) in scout/skirmish stance and strenght in assault stance
• Abilities build while the SW is moving should not be interrupt by a Jump
• Add an Ability “Outmaneuver Traps” : same as Juggernaut Ability of Tank
• Add more Abilities while under VoN effect.

Scout:

• Stance :
  • Reduce casting times of scout abilities by 1sec and auto-attack' by 0,5sec
  • Each point spent in Scout path increased the maximal range by 2 % , starting at 100 ft, and Ballistic Skill, Initiative by +8 when in scout stance. For instance with 15 points spent : the max range is 130 ft, + 120 BS, + 120 init. This modification aims to provide a real advantage to SW that have choose scout path for scout stance.
  • All arrows usable in scout stance have the same max range (I.e Flame Arrow, BroadHead Arrow, Glass Arrow, Shadow Sting, ...etc)
• Fell the Weak :
  • Has some threshold : HP <20% = 798 Damage, 20% < HP < 50% = 500 Damage, HP > 50% = 299 Damage
  • Become a straight flight arrow (as Rapid Fire), in order to avoid the random efficiency of this arrow due to time flight and lag.
• Fixed Acid Arrow : the cast time has to be really 1.5 s
• [Tactic] Guerrilla Training : Scout AE (Flame Arrow and Glass Arrow) become GTAoE which deal their initial damage on all the target in the zone, and so their DoT. No more AP cost reduction.
• Glass Arrow :
  • Choice 1 : Become Corporeal Damage. Add an zone interrupt Effect (maybe with VoN?)
  • Choice 2 : Fell the Weak go down step 5 of Scout Path (and could be used in all stance) and Glass Arrow become a canalized GTAoE at step 11 of the Path
• Flame Arrow : Add a snare zone effect (Maybe with VoN?)
• Eagle Eye : become useless at high level. This shot is designed to be our anytime in Scout Stance. But Festering Arrow, Rapid Fire or Spiral Arrow are used. In order to balance it :
  • Choice 1 : raised its max range (greater than all the other shot)
  • Choice 2 (could be add to the first): reduce the AP cost
  • Give a secondary effect or a bonus with VoN
• Leading Shot : affect also the Shadow Warrior (Maybe not could be combine with Bullseye, or Bullseye has to be scale on other classes equivalent tactic)

Skirmish:

• Stance :
  • Each point spent in Skirmish Path increased all resist by +5, as disrupt, dodge and range critical rate by +0,5%. For instance with 15 points spent : +75 in all resist, + 7,5% disrupt, dodge, range crit rate. This modification aims to provide real advantage to SW that have choose skirmish path for skirmish stance
  • Bonus stack with all existing buff (potion and abilities)
  • Raise resists for +XX pt
  • All arrow usable in skirmish stance could be build while moving (Rapid Fire for instance)
  • Max Range of Skirmish abilities is increased to 72 Ft in order to give the opportunity to avoid Terrible Embrace or Chaotic Rift
• Lileath Arrow :
  • If the SW has a Target when the Arrow is fired so axis Y is also take into account, while without target only axis X is take into account
  • This ability deals spiritual damage and pass through material world. It can be effective behind object (wall, stone, door)
• Flanking shot : become an instant cast
• [Tactic] Charge Forth : give 15% more critical chance for all Skirmish path abilities, without penalty.
• Takedown : instant cast
• Eye Shot : also reduces dodge and block rating by X% (Maybe with VoN)
• Barrage :
  • Choice 1 : replace by trap : rope. The first enemy approaching +within less than 10 feet of the trap +will destroy it but it will knockdown him and all enemies within 30 ft c. This DOES NOT cause immunity. Last 1 minute, CD 30 sec
  • Choice 2 : replace by a AE DoT with a large delve
  • Choice 3 : Cleave KB, increase the CD.
• [Tactic]Keen Arrowhead : Also increase theduration of Shadow Sting and Barrage (trap version), maybe “Throat Shot” and “Whirling pin"

Assault

• Stance :
  • Each point spent in Assault Path increased Strength, Weapon Skill, Toughness and Willpower by 10. For instance 15 point spent in Assault Path will give + 150 Str, Ws, Tough and Willpo. This modification aims to provide real advantage to SW that have choose assault path for assault stance
  • Bonus stack with other buff
  • max range for the bow stays to 65 ft
• Add a Melee Snare, only in Assault stance
• [Tactic] Sinister Assault : All positional abilities ignore armor of the target (Brutal assault and Flanking shot)
• Swift Strike : up to step 7 in Assault path, and put the snare in replacement
• Armor debuff mustn't be double in assault stance !

Vengeance of Nagarythe (VoN)

• rebuild the mechanism
  • Choice 1 : rely on witch elves and WHs ' stealth. Could be launch every 30 sec for 30 sec, but required PA each tick to stay up.
  • Choice 2 : rely on Slayer's “Reckless Gamble”. Activation : The SW deals 20% but also receives 10% more damage as long as VoN is active. A 60s cDCis launched when deactivated.
  • Choice 3 : (more complicated one ) The SW released is primal hate for his enemies. When VoN is activated it gave+s +20% damage bonus, which decrease(d)s for 1% each second. BUT this malus takes effect only if and when the SW switches (of) target (For instance if he takes a new target after 7 sec, its bonus is decrease from 20% to 13%). Could be Deactivate. Cost 30 PA. Last for 20 sec. CD 30 sec after the end of the effect. The main idea is that vengeance is always inside the SW. Nevertheless, it is reserved for one target, so the bonus is 20% as long as you not switch of target. Vengeance (is peaced) calms down as long as time is running.
• Each Abilities (Arrows, or blade hit) got a secondary effect.

Morale

• Point Blank : KD must not be suject to immune
• Rain of Steel :
  • Choice 1 : Instant Shot for 2400 damages (as the Squig Herder does)
  • Choice 2 : Change its name : Instant shot, deals 4800 damages on a single target. Max range 300 ft
• Concealment : raise to 100% the parry rate and slightly decreased the duration in order to be really interesting for Assault specialist
• Add “Shadow Bind” : The Shadow Warrior calls the shadows power and weaves it to entangle his enemies. All enemies within 30ft are root, silenced and disarm for 10 sec as the Shadow Warrior but it grants a total immunity to all attack or debuff.

Tactics

• It's important to have an equivalent tactic to “Shooting wif da wind” and “Throwing Arm's” in order to balance the SWs' skirmisher path (and to add it to the Magus). This tactic has to be a core one for all these classes.
• Smoldering Arrow :
  • Also raise Glass Arrow damages for XX corporeal damages.
  • Have to rename it because it does not only affect Fire Arrow
• Blood-Soaked War : Healing benefits of willpower bonus and can have a critical effect.
  • Choice 1 : each critical hit received, SW is healed for296 HP.
  • Choice 2 : SW is healed for296 HP each time the group kill an enemy.
  • Choice 3 : SW is healed ) for 125 each 4 sec (as the White Lion).
• No Quarter : extend it. Detaunt,Hex , Ailment and Curse are affected.

Renown Point and Renown Abilities

• Replace “Diminish War Engines” by “Trap Potern” : Potern can not be open for 1 minute
• Hamper War Engines
  • Choice 1 : SW aim precisely a weak point in the War Engine and provoke a small explosion. In addition of the current effect, all enemies within 10 ft are Knocked Back and received a small amount of damage.
  • Choice 2 : The targeted machine or Oil can't be repaired for XX sec
• Add “Tracking Arrow” : The target will appear on the HuD and the Map for XX minute. End with the death of the target.
• Ballistic Point give by Renown Point are also counted as Strenght in Assault Stance.

Graphic Effects and other things

• A dark mist engulfed the SW while VoN is running
• Whirling pin is not enough seen by allies. Add a important Dark Wind around the victims.
• Change “Exploit Weekness” icon because is the same as “Whirling Pin”
• Add a more intense visual effect on “Penetrating Arrow”
• Change the name (for) of “Festering Arrow”. Shadow Warrior NEVER uses poison !
• If the Melee Snare is add, animation could be a kick
• Barrage : no visual effect … create one (an arrow wall ?)
• Epics weapons has to shine with an aura
• Add an effect for Whirling Rage clearly different from Instill Fear
• Add a visual effect for the victim of Instill Fear in order to make clear they are no more longer a threat
• ADD A STRING TO OUR BOWS !!!
• Add a quiver (the skin evolves according to the armor set. Could be add to Breast part.)

Sets and Armors

• Add ward on Ruins Set (for all classes)
• Strength does not longer be used. Remove Strength bonus from stuff, add BS. The point of variation could be around range critical bonus, and melee critical bonus

[MrYay]

Clap, Clap, Clap. Many thanks Val

Juste qqe conseils, si tu le permets:
1/Prononce le mot French qu'une seule fois. Trust me, il y a certains amerlocs qui sont de assez stupides pour te pourrir un thread juste parce que le mot "french" a été prononcé.
2/Enleve mon pseudo du message. Encore une fois, je te remercie sincerement Val, et j'aurais fait la meme chose, cependant il vaut mieux que ca soit un thread qui vienne QUE de la communauté des SW. Par contre tu peux mettre le liens sur le thread d'origine (celui qui pointe sur les forums de war-europe, pas celui de jol)
3/changer Barrage : no visual effect … create one (an arrow wall ?)
par Barrage : no visual effect … create one (wall of arrows?)
4/Pour "ADD A STRING TO OUR BOWS !!!", moi j'aurais mis "ADD A FUCKING STRING TO OUR BOWS !!! FOR FUCKING SAKE, YOU IDIOTS!!" . Mais bon on va rester pro. Juste pour dire qu'il vaut mieux que ca reste en miniscule, comme le reste. Car le mettre en majuscule donne "l'impression" que c'est plus important que le reste.
5/ dans "Add a quiver (the skin evolves according to the armor set. Could be add to Breast part.)", j'aurais mis "Torso" a la place de "Breast" (qui indique plus la poitrine).

Encore une fois merci.

Tu comptes le poster quand et ou?

Peace

[Valril]

Merci aussi à Raegan (pour son aide de relecture ) et au correcteur de OpenOffice

Je vais faire les modif que tu as proposé.

Je compte le post sur le forum UK officiel et surement warhammer alliance.

Ensuite si vous avez des idées ou des potes au US qui joue a WAR... les miens aux US sont toujours sur WoW malheureusement.

Je ferais par contre puet etre pas ça avant lundi histoire de bien suivre la foulée de la 1.2.1

[nenyx]

"Whrilgin Pin" => "Whirling Pin"

Sinon franchement très bien, rien à redire.

[Leonin]

Bravo !

Seulement, une remarque. On arrive avec nos RDPS, RPG, CC, DoT. Je dis pas qu'ils savent pas de quoi on parle, mais tout de même.

[Liiscar | Arachnea]

cool,

de toute façon ca pourra pas souffrir de moins d'écoute que actuellement avec le post francais qui remue pas des vagues